20 Responses

  1. John
    John at |

    Sounds like the modern day Guantanamo Bay detention camp techniques used today.

    Reply
    1. Joe K
      Joe K at |

      Really? At Guantanamo Bary, is the “sole of the foot” is “beaten so severely that the outer layer of bone . . .peeled away in layers?” Really? Silly off-topic comments like yours add nothing to the discussion.

      Reply
  2. Evidence of Hobbling, Torture Discovered at Ancient Massacre Site in Colorado | Western Digs | Visiting the Ancients

    […] via Evidence of Hobbling, Torture Discovered at Ancient Massacre Site in Colorado | Western Digs. […]

  3. Dan Kimble
    Dan Kimble at |

    Yes, more evidence of the Noble Savage.

    Oh, the horrors of the European settlement of the North American continent. (sarcasm)

    The politically correct seem to have covered up the evidence of the favorite pastime of the aboriginal Americans….torture. But, they didn’t have TV…..so, this is understandable, right?

    The aboriginal Americans were known by the earliest Europeans to have practiced brutal torture of their enemies. They would torture their captives for hours…..for the fun of it.

    Torture has been a part of human culture through history. It was the Europeans who put a stop to it.

    Reply
    1. manapp99
      manapp99 at |

      But Europeans did a lot of torture on their own. Look at the inquisitions and the Spanish treatment of the people down south for evidence. Massacres in North America of indigenous people were chronicled and who can forget the slave years.

      Europeans did not stop torture. They were among the most prolific at it.

      Reply
    2. Chad Justice
      Chad Justice at |

      @Dan – That is one of the most racist little tantrums I’ve seen on an archaeology site recently. There were terrible horrors caused by the expansion of Europeans into both continents. There was also a lot of violence within the indiginous cultures of the Americas but you’re assertion that Europeans put a stop to torture and violence and that all indiginous cultures were violent is spurious and rediculous. I don’t know where you get your idea that there is some secret “political correct” group covering up evidence. That is conspiritorial idiocy! All human cultures have violent characteristics and justifying European genocide (small pox blankets was just one strategy employed by Europeans) by saying those people were horrible and we did them a favor is so incredibly and maliciously racist I don’t know what else to say but, “Stop It.” Keep your bigoted nonsense to yourself.

      Reply
      1. Larry K
        Larry K at |

        Please read your history and don’t fall for that noble savage drivel. Read the original writings of first contact histories which give plenty of evidence of violence Indian cultures perpetrated on each other.
        Europeans did not give small pox infected blankets to anyone. That is a myth. Anyway small pox does not live outside the human body for more than a few hours.

        Reply
    3. Doug
      Doug at |

      Well said.

      Reply
  4. Greg789
    Greg789 at |

    @Larry K Good comment. President Jefferson, who was inoculated against smallpox, made it the U.S. policy to inoculate the Indians in 1803 and ordered Lewis and Clark to carry a supply with them to introduce to the Indians.

    Reply
  5. Daily Dose of Archaeology 4.0 - Page 140 - Historum - History Forums

    […] Evidence of Hobbling, Torture Discovered at Ancient Massacre Site in Colorado | Western Digs […]

  6. Rory Tyler
    Rory Tyler at |

    San Juan Basketmaker, and I assume Durango as well, went to full time agriculture c. 1300 b.p. This was about the time of the Teotehuacan collapse on the Mexican Plateau. A diaspora, possibly militant, may have made its way north. The speculation re: an violent invasive element is worth consideration. “Do it our way, or we’ll torture and murder you.” A compelling argument. Subsequently, we see the rise in this region of the Anasazi culture which included such Mexican-sourced refinements as buildings, roads, and cannibalism. Ahh, the peaceful Anasazi.

    Reply
  7. Kelvin
    Kelvin at |

    If nothing else our country should stop using the formally thought of Noble Red mans names in honor for military vehicles and also for sport teams now that we found the Indians were far more violent than what was pushed on us from the start.

    Reply
  8. Steve Brooks
    Steve Brooks at |

    Wow, that’s all i’m going to say to Kelvin and Dan, simply ‘WOW’. That is some ignorance you have their, you must be in pure bliss! In Europe at that time, we were breaking people on the wheel, dislocating peoples joints on the rack and don’t even get me started on the Norse Blood Eagle or other inventive ways thought up in the Dark Ages (yes, 800AD was the Dark Ages) The seemingly endless war throughout Europe in this age, would have made this look a picnic in comparison. Do not think for a second that we were any different than them in this period. As for the small pox blankets, that was after Lewis and Clarke and was aimed at the Cheyenne and other later tribes to reduce their number and make it easier to seize their lands ahead of the gold rush in the black hills. It is a historical fact and is recorded in hundreds of history books. They were even used on the reservations, and you were lucky if your blanket just had smallpox, most blankets hadnt even been washed before they were sent to the “Animal Pens” sorry, reservations. I’m going to stop now, but as an American, you should open your eyes to history and what your ancestors done, not live in ignorance and just say it was all lies.

    Reply
    1. Larry K
      Larry K at |

      You are wrong about the blankets and small pox. Ward Churchill is responsible for perpetuating this myth. He has been thoroughly discredited. A good example of how tenured professors get away with shoddy research – http://quod.lib.umich.edu/p/plag/5240451.0001.009/–did-the-us-army-distribute-smallpox-blankets-to-indians?rgn=main;view=fulltext

      Reply
  9. bryan
    bryan at |

    All of these comments refer to the damage done to the victims feet as torture as does
    The article itself. Is it not more plausible that it was caused to keep their food supply from running away? Had they just killed the victims the meat would have spoiled quickly.

    Reply
    1. Nick Carter
      Nick Carter at |

      If you have so little food that you need to start eating human beings, but you also have too many humans to eat before their meat spoils, the most efficient way to proceed would be to kill them all at once and jerk the meat – a technique with which the killers here would presumably have been familiar. Otherwise, whether or not you hobble your victims, their metabolisms are going to keep on keeping on up to the moment of death. That means that either you’ll have to feed them (but you already don’t have enough food) or let them starve slowly (breaking down their muscle tissue and tasty fat). This really seems more like a nasty display of power.

      Reply
  10. Dave Olson
    Dave Olson at |

    Two wrongs don’t make a right, but both sides must acknowledge their own wrongdoing(s). We can all agree that torture is evil, bad, and wrong, but as long as one (pre-Enlightenment Europe) is constantly made an example of while another (pre-Columbian Aboriginal America) is ignored or whitewashed, your argument is invalid.

    Whitewashed….get it?

    Reply
  11. Chris Amon
    Chris Amon at |

    Ok not entirely sure if smallpox blankets were real, but it certainly sounds plausible because we Americans did a lot worse than that. To say “oh there goes the myth of the noble red man! They had cannibals, they had massacres, we did the world a favor by exterminating them” is both ignorant and evil. This is an archeology website, go peddle hate over at MSNBC.
    Ok! Got that off my chest. So I’ve read in the spanish accounts of the DeSoto expedition that the Mississippians hobbled slaves who they captured in war. Since the site was abandoned shortly after, could these people represent recently captured slaves?

    Reply
  12. Week 7 ArchNews | ANP 203: Introduction to Archaeology (Summer 2014)
  13. Robert
    Robert at |

    Is there anyway to determine the sex of these bones?
    Was this torture done to both male and female?

    Reply

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